Arguments

Common Questions and Answers

    What is God-Of-The-Gaps?

This frequent objection should be addressed first, as in most debate situations atheists resort to this contention abruptly and repeatedly. God-Of-The-Gaps is an assertion originally espoused by Presbyterian minister Henry Drummand in the year 1846, essentially theorizing that creation cannot be utilized to authenticate the existence of a Creator (1). An apparent Biblically erroneous statement, as Scripture conversely affirms that God’s existence is “clearly perceived in the things that have been made” (Romans 1:20). For enigmatic reasons, nearly all atheists deem this declaration to be considered an axiom for all Christians. Ostensibly presuming acceptance on the part of their Christian contenders, banking on the notion that it was invented by a Christian; that all Christian debaters would reluctantly acquiesce.

If this statement was Biblically sound, it would present a very significant obstacle. Consider a nonbeliever referring to an oil painting of a landscape, then contending that it came into being by random chance and no artist was involved in the process. When you begin to reply referring to the deliberate, intentional, thoughtful brush strokes, our atheist friend suddenly interrupts contending that you cannot refer to the actual painting in any way to support your reasoning. This virtually eliminates nearly every argument proposable. It’s analogous to a boxing opponent insisting you enter the ring blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back.

It’s a foregone conclusion that when an atheist claims that a Creator doesn’t exist, and you refer to some aspect of creation in effort to prove otherwise, our atheist friend will most likely raise his hand like a traffic cop signaling a motorist to stop and start parroting “God of the gaps, God of the gaps, God of the gaps….” Simply inform your challenger that you are not a Presbyterian and the statement is erroneous to Catholics. A statement made in 1846 by some Presbyterian minister (who disputed the earth being a sphere) is irrelevant to contemporary science.

How can anything of a spiritual nature be proven to exist?

     Over a hundred years ago it would be almost impossible to explain how waves can travel through the air and be received by our television sets to become audio and moving video.  These invisible waves can flow through us and are completely undetectable without sophisticated devices.  Physicists and Planetary Scientists argue the existence of black holes because the gravitational force of visible matter falls short of what is required to hold galaxies together. We are only beginning to understand how different realms of existence could be possible.  Beings spiritual in nature are thought to exist in some form of energy that we have yet to understand. In the words of Sherlock Holmes; "When you eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however merely improbable, must be true" . When stepping back and looking at creation, the only explanation is Intelligent Design by a Supreme Being. More detail on this in the Vital Moon section.

Why would God choose to be spiritual in nature?

     It would be logical to presume that there must be a distinct advantage to having a spiritual existence, some clues are beginning to emerge.  For instance; until recently, there was only one known phenomenon that can travel faster than the speed of light; the physical effects of gravitational force.  For example; if the sun were to instantaneously disappear, we would still see its photons of light for approximately ten minutes.  However, the Earth would immediately recede from orbit.  To an Earthly observer, the sun would still appear in the sky, but we would instantly see movement away from the sun.  Comparatively, the opposite is lightning and thunder.  First we see lightning because light travels faster than sound, later we hear the sound of thunder.  We can estimate the distance from a lightning strike by counting the seconds between the gap.  In the hypothetical case of the disappearing sun, we would first notice the loss of orbit then the absence of the sun's light.

     Scientist have only recently discovered that pure energy can travel many times the speed of light.  This physical property was revealed through mathematically calculating the expansion rate of the Big Bang.  Physicist Steven William Hawking explains in "Stephen Hawking's Universe - Weird Beginnings" how initially the Big Bang expansion was thousands of times the speed of light and originally consisted of pure energy, which eventually transformed into matter (2).  Energy is not bound to the same laws of matter.  If a Spiritual existence has analogous properties to energy, we could speculate that being able to travel thousands of times the speed of light would certainly be an advantage.  These are forms of existence that we cannot yet comprehend.  There is an old Catholic adage, "If anyone can speak for more than ten minutes on the Holy Spirit, they're probably making it up".

 

Why doesn’t God just perform some Great Miracle in the sky to prove to everyone that He exists?

 

Author John Haffert on Fatima

October 13, 1986

Haffert interviewed over 200 witness for his book

Fatima: Meet the Witness

At 12:00 noon on October 13, 1917, He did before a group of over 75,000 skeptical spectators in Fatima, Portugal. It was the only Miracle ever given at an exact predicted time and place, and was performed in front of tens of thousands of witnesses. It was given by God at the request of the Virgin Mary who was appearing to three young children in Fatima, Portugal; so "That all may believe". Many people (including Church Officials) rejected the messages given to the children concerning the future; Russia would rise up and spread the errors of atheist communism throughout the world, triggering wars and persecutions against the Church. "The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be annihilated". These doubters found it absurd that Russia could ever be a threat, as Russia at that time was in complete disarray with rebellion, riots and starvation. They requested a miracle to support the validity of these Marian visitations. Our Lady said a Miracle would take place on October 13, 1917 in the Cova da Iria at exactly 12:00 noon. About 75,000 people gathered at that location, in the middle of a torrential rain, the sky opened and the sun began to spin in the sky, emitting radiant colors like a fireworks pinwheel, then appeared to plunge upon the earth, causing people to run for shelter and parents to throw themselves over their children. The spectacle lasted for 10 full minutes, and afterwards everyone's clothes and the ground became dry (before the Miracle the people were drenched, some were in water up to their ankles). The next day the communist newspaper reporters (who were ridiculing the children for months) announced that the Miracle actually took place (3). The Miracle was seen up to 32 miles away from the Cova by people who refused to go to the location, particularly several atheists who immediately repented and converted to Catholicism (their statements were included in Haffert's book).

 

The fire from the sun plunging to the earth represents the Great Chastisement foretold in several passages in the Bible, "Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the day of the Lord’s wrath; And all the Earth will be devoured in fire" (Zepheniah 1 - 2). Other similar Marian Apparitions emphasized that this sentence was the result of the millions of innocents who beg God day and night for justice; "the hundreds of millions of souls who were prevented from ever seeing the light of day". Haffert believed that the spectators were all given a mass vision of this Great Chastisement (some kind of a solar superflare capable of reaching the earth, which God had protected the earth from in the past without us being aware) as a warning, but it could be lessened or avoided completely.

 

 Since the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima was a such a powerful Miracle and witnessed by thousands of people, it necessitated a formal atheist response. The preposterous retort by atheist Kevin McClure that he had "never seen such a collection of contradictory accounts" flies in the face of the striking uniformity of the actual witness accounts. Haffert's 200 signed statements from real witnesses as well as the nearly 300 documented interviews by Fr. John De Marchi are virtually identical (4, 5). Fatima supporters contend that McClure never interviewed one witness, but spent months sifting through countless witness statements cherry-picking four slightly different than the rest, then founded his case on that. Nowadays, nonbelievers explained that it was a mass hallucination (Notwithstanding that most believed the miracle would not occur, the local Bishop sent Priests to physically remove the Children, which the crowd prevented), a UFO from outer space (not worth commenting on), swamp gas (not worth commenting on), etc. They questioned what observatories in Fatima recorded the event, notwithstanding it was 1917 in a poor communist country. Even in the event there was an observatory, it was 12:00 noon during a torrential downpour. The Local Bishop was so perturbed  how spectators were terrified at the sun appearing to engulf them, that he refused to validate the miracle, even considering it was from the occult. The miracle was only determined worthy of belief 13 years afterward by the next Bishop. Even after this great miracle before thousands of witnesses, some incredulous people endeavor to refute the incontrovertible evidence.

Currently, the Virgin Mary has been appearing to children (now adults) in Medjugorje, Bosnia / Herzegovina since 1981. Each visionary was given 10 secrets believed to be regarding the Great Chastisement. Several of the visionaries indicated that this Chastisement could be lessened or avoided by change and repentance. Again incredulous people (including the Church) are now demanding a permanent miracle. Our Lady of Medjugorje confided that an eternal indestructible sign will be left at the conclusion of these apparitions and remain forever. In the Bible, Jesus explains why God seldom reveals himself in the "Parable of the Faithful and Wicked Servants (Luke 12:42). Life is a test. As in the popular adage; while the cat is away, the mice will play. It is self-evident how sycophants fawn over superiors in charge of them, even if they despise them. If everyone was 100% assured of God’s presence, even those who disdain Him the most would be insincere servile flatterers. By carefully maintaining the possibility of not being present, God can observe and judge our true behavior, conduct and demeanor for final judgment. This is not an unfamiliar concept, we do it all the time with one-way mirrors and nanny cams.

 

The very next day, the stunned atheist communist newspapers wrote how the Miracle took place as predicted, despite mocking the children for months prior, and publishing numerous articles espousing the demise of the Catholic Church when the miracle doesn't take place.
  From http://www.Translate.Google.com  

The Miracle Of Fatima

 

[Letter to someone who asks a testimony unsuspected]

 

Breaking a silence of more than twenty years and with the invocation of remote and nostalgic times in which we live in brotherly camaraderie , then enlightened by faith and strengthened by common purposes identical , you write me to tell you, sincerely and thoroughly , what I saw I heard on the moor of Fatima , when the fame of celestial apparitions that desolate wilderness gathered tens of thousands of people more thirsty , I believe, supernatural than impelled by curiosity or fear a sham ...

 

Catholics are in disagreement about the importance and significance than witnessed . Some were convinced that they had complied with the High prometimentos , others find themselves far from believing in the incontrovertible reality of a miracle. You were a believer in your youth and you left stamp . People familiar dragged you to Fatima , the colossal surge of the people who were there joined October 13 . Your rationalism suffered a tremendous struggle and want to establish a reliable opinion about rescuing you from unsuspected testimony with the world , because I was there only in the performance of a task quite difficult , as the reporting impartially for a major daily , The Age , the events that unfold before me and coming much curious and instructive in they arrest . There will be meet by your wish, but certainly our eyes and our ears have not seen nor heard different things , and rare were those who were of similar magnitude insensitive will show that I heard between us and the whole point worthy took me Fatima ?

 

And study .. ma ? May the Virgin Mary , after the feast of the Ascension , appeared to three children who were pasturing cattle, two young and zagalete , recommending them to pray and promising them appear there on an oak , on the 13th of each month until in October to give them any sign of God's power and make revelations . Spread to new for many leagues round about, flew from land to land , until comias of Portugal,

and the pilgrimage of believers grew from month to month , to the point of joining the moor of Fatima , on October 13 , some fifty thousand people , depending on the calculations of dispassionate individuals . In previous meetings fies , there were participants who had supposed to see astronomical and atmospheric singularities , which took as evidence of immediate divine intervention . Some people speak of sudden drawdown temperature , Twinkle star high noon and beautiful clouds - never seen around the sun . There were those who repeat and propalasse feelingly recommended that Ms. penance , which meant the creation of a chapel at that location , which manifest on October 13 , through a test sensitive to all the infinite goodness and omnipotence of God ...

 

So it was that on the day celebrated and longed , flocked from near and far to Fatima , braving all encumbrances and all the hardships of travel , thousands and thousands of people , some who palmilharam leagues to the sun and rain , others that carried on many different vehicles , from almost prehistoric to the latest car models and wonderful and still very many who endured the discomforts of the third class trains , within which to go now relatively small distances , and long hours are lost days and up to imitate ! I saw men ranches

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and women , patiently , as rapt in a dream , address themselves , Eve , the site famous for singing hymns and walking barefoot to the beat of them is endowed will cadenced recitation of the Rosary , without the importunasse the demovesse the desesperasse , almost sudden change of weather , when water bátegas transformed the dusty roads into quagmires funds and the sweetness of autumn followed by a day with harsh winter ... I saw the crowd , sometimes depressed place around the tiny miracle tree and chopping it of its branches to keep them as relics , now the vast sprawling moorland road that crosses Leiria and dominates the most picturesque and competition from cars and people cluttered that eventful day , wait in the best order supernatural manifestations , without fear that the wintering harm , reducing them to the splendor and grandeur ...

 

I saw the disappointment did not invade the soul , that trust is kept alive and burning , despite unexpected setbacks , the composure of the crowd that superabundavam rednecks was perfect and that children , in their view privileged to welcome one had the statements of the most intense affection from those people who knelt , and prayed it was discovered his warrant when approaching the hour of the "miracle" , the time of 'sign -sensitive' , time mystical and longed contact between heaven and earth ...

 

When he did not imagine he saw something more impressive than this rumored but peaceful crowd excited by the same obsessive idea and moved by the same powerful yearning , I saw I still truly stranger on the moor of Fatima? The rain , the hour foretold , stop falling , the dense mass of clouds break up and the king star - disk matte silver - in full zenith appear and start dancing ballet in a violent and convulsive , which many people thought to be a serpentine dance , so beautiful and glittering colors overlaid successively solar surface ...

 

Miracle , as the people shouted ; natural phenomenon , as sages say ? Do not swear now know it , but you just say what I saw ... The rest is with the Science and the Church ...

     Why would I need anyone to threaten me with hell to be good?

Atheists seem to have a major issue with hell, notwithstanding the existence of earthly judicial systems utilizing dungeons, jails and prisons for many thousands of years throughout history. Heaven likewise has a judicial system incorporating judgment and punishment (6). Since we always had examples of justice here on earth, why is it so impossible to envision justice in the afterlife? The issue is more likely with conflicts over God's and man's definitions of good. Simply being a law abiding citizen satisfies earth's standard, but may not meet Heaven's criteria. In the 1940's a good nazi was a law abiding citizen. Today the systematic assembly-line murdering of tens of millions of defenseless innocent babies before birth (and after birth; Obama's attempts to thwart the Born Alive Infant Protection Act) is actually laudable. Here on earth, these mass murderers are given Humanitarian Service Awards (7). One day these people celebrated on earth will have to stand before a Judge who once said: "Whosoever shall offend one of these little ones, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea".

 

     If God is good, why is there evil in the world?

     At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, we read how He fasted for 40 days in the desert and was tempted by the devil. "The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, ‘I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to’" (Luke 04:05). The clue is that the Earth was given to Lucifer. Before the devil fell from grace, he was one of God's favorites, comparable to the disciple Judas. One can ascertain from the Bible passage that when God gives something, it is an unconditional gift. Notwithstanding the expulsion, "How art thou fallen from heaven, Oh Lucifer, son of the morning? How art thou cut down to the ground" (Isaiah 14:12). "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18).

     As science progressed, we came to understand that the tiny points of light in the sky are actually distant suns like our own. As physical cosmology progressed, we became aware of the 100 trillion stars in our Galaxy.  Enhanced telescopes revealed that there are over a 100 trillion Galaxies in our field of view. It's a foregone conclusion that there are many more discoveries yet to be revealed as we peer further into the Universe. As physical cosmology, planetary science and  telescopes improve, it becomes impossible to imagine that the only planet with life is our tiny spec floating in this vast Universe.  Planetary scientists speculate that Mars may have had conditions suitable to life 3 Billion years ago, as it had large amounts of surface water in that time frame.  These same scientists foresee Venus as cooling Billions of years into the future and quite possibly having habitual conditions.  These are two additional planets within the Goldilocks belt of our one solar system.  It becomes reasonable to presume that God established many other worlds teeming with life.  "I have other sheep that are not in this fold" (John 10:16).  Considering Luke 04:05, it may also be reasonable to speculate that each of these worlds are more than simply delegated or entrusted, but actually given to Angelic caretakers. According to the Bible, God’s recourse or solution was to quarantine Lucifer onto the Earth, to isolate contamination. Of all the Disciples, there was only one Judas.  Could this be symbolic that we are we are the only planet in the Universe to have such an evil infestation? Countering this infestation, are we are also the only planet to have God Incarnate live and teach amongst us?  Can we speculate that Earth may be effectively quarantined from the rest of the Universe?

     There are many religions, each claiming to be the only one that leads to salvation, while espousing that all the others are going to hell.

     Although there are various religions, many are intertwined with God reaching out to numerous different civilizations, cultures and societies at different points in history.  Most share their roots with the Jewish Torah (Old Testament), such as Christian and Islamic based Faiths.  The Jewish and Islamic religions separate after Abraham, the Jews going in the direction of Isaac and the Muslims in the direction of Ishmael.  The Christians continue following the path of the Messiah, who Catholics believe is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob incarnate.  Notwithstanding how most religions tend to espouse that each possesses the only path to salvation, in actuality this is fundamentally and scripturally based predominately on individual actions, behavior, conduct and deeds. There are over 41,000 Christian based denominations, nearly all based entirely on the Christian Bible, which describes Jesus as the sole Judge. Unfortunately many Church officials have made achieving Heaven seem so unattainable, than many have become disheartened. Jesus told these judgmental Chief Priests, Doctors of the Law, Pharisees and Scribes: "I tell you the truth, tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you". This sheds a very different light on this subject as opposed to what is being routinely taught.

     "And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? None good but one, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth" (Mark 10:17). Jesus lays out the basic fundamental conditions of Salvation, the Ten Commandments, do not defraud, honor your father and mother, etc. That is why the forces of evil have been so steadfast in endeavoring to remove displays of the Ten Commandments wherever possible.

     "Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me (Mark 10:21). It may be reasonable to presume that God does not call every one of us to sell everything we own and follow Him.  This is the above and beyond, the conditions of Sainthood.

     "And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" (Mark 10:22). One can conclude that the rich man would be saved through obeying the Law and through the loving mercy of God.

     It would be wrong to argue that the Jews are not saved, as Moses is certainly in Heaven, even though he didn’t know Jesus before he died. Catholics believe in a place called purgatory, essentially a place of debriefing, to learn all the truths before progressing to Heaven. God is a Parent who loves His Children. As a Parent, He primarily wants us to love Him and to love each other. A Pharisees asked Jesus; Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:35). This is reinforced when Jesus said to the Chief Priests and Pharisees; "Verily I say unto you, that the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you" (Matthew 21:31), as those particular Chief Priests and the Pharisees were only concerned with their own egos. We see evidence of this even today, as there are some like Judas within the Catholic Church, who may likewise be circumvented by tax collectors and prostitutes. For example; why has the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) filtered 280 million dollars to pro-abortion groups and not one penny to Pro-Life groups? (8).

There is no historical proof that Jesus existed.

Virtually all scholars agree that Jesus existed (9). In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (who is a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285.

Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies existence) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X page 61.

Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200.

Robert E. Van Voorst states that biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted. Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 0-8028-4368-9 page 16.

James D. G. Dunn "Paul's understanding of the death of Jesus" in Sacrifice and Redemption edited by S. W. Sykes (Dec 3, 2007) Cambridge University Press ISBN 052104460X pages 35–36 states that the theories of non-existence of Jesus are "a thoroughly dead thesis".

Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34.

Flavius Josephus was a Jewish historian who kept detailed first century records. Recorded in Book 18 (Antiquities of the Jews), Chapter 3, Paragraph 3, there is a reference to Jesus:

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day" (10).